ITC Gem 6: The Strangeness of Material “Reality”

Editor’s note: In the late 1980s, ITC researchers in Luxembourg received a letter from their spirit friend Swejen Salter, who had recently died on one of the Earth’s parallel worlds—a planet called Varid. Swejen related some of the difficulties she faced as a scientist while adapting to her new life in spirit… with memories of her illusive physical life still fresh in her mind. The researchers had been asking her for advice on how to develop better systems with which to open high-tech communication channels with the afterlife.

– – Luxembourg Report – –

Swejen: I found it frightening and fascinating to find out that energy and matter are one and the same thing, that a body only seems to exist and that time has to be understood as a bodily substance.

Mankind simply does not have the necessary fundamentals yet to comprehend either physical or spiritual realities. Several elements such as fermium or the Hahn particles have not been discovered yet on Terra as they have on Planet Varid. How can I instruct you to develop an apparatus when several of its metals do not even exist?

Many here do not even believe in contacts with Earth, and our group cannot convince them that ITC is genuine. They do not believe anymore that they once lived in a four-dimensional world of time and tell me they had only dreamed it.

– – End of Luxembourg Report – –

Notes:

“Energy and matter are one and the same…”  The source (what our religions call God, Allah, Brahman, or Yahweh) is something like a sun, emitting a pure, nonvibrating force or energy or light, which begins to vibrate very fast as it leaves the source… and the vibrations become slower and slower as it emanates outward. That force, sometimes called such things as Holy Spirit or Aum or chi, manifests all reality everywhere—not just everywhere in the material universe but throughout the boundless, innumerable spiritual realms. It spins off to create all structure, all force, and all conscious thought… all of which is just illusion. Each reality at every vibrational level of existence takes on its own characteristics, and physicists for several centuries have theorized that our material universe consists of two forces—matter and energy. What we find, shortly after we die and start getting settled into the afterlife, is that matter and energy, as well as consciousness, are all part of the same force.

“…time has to be understood as a bodily substance.”  Our spirit friends have no sense of time as we do. Life is happening in the moment. As they observe us on Earth, they see our physical bodies aging—an indication that “time is passing” in our world. That probably pertains to what Swejen is referring to, though I’m not sure if it’s the complete picture. I’d welcome comments from readers with other ideas.

“…elements such as fermium or the Hahn particle have not been discovered yet on Terra…”  Apparently there are metals unknown to modern science that have properties conducive to interdimensional research. They might be similar to the metals used in extra-terrestrial crafts, or UFOs, spotted frequently around the world, which move fluidly between our material dimension and subtler ones, blinking into and out of our view. Where (or even if) such metals would fit into the periodic table?… or if they are some yet-to-be devised alloys?… I have no idea. I do know, however, that terrestrial science still has a lot to learn!

“Many here do not believe in ITC contacts with Earth…”  We move from one vibrational level or dimension to another while meditating or dreaming or making our transition after death. Some beings (for example, our ethereal friends who call themselves The Seven) apparently can move among dimensions fluidly and fully aware of any reality at any time. Not so for us humans. Our minds (whether through genetic programming long ago or through natural evolution… again, who really knows?) become acutely aware of our current reality, while the dimension we left behind fades into a surreal experience. That’s why we awaken from a dream with only vague memories of what was going on in that other reality (which we mistakenly dismiss as “a dream world”), and the memories quickly fade away. The same thing happens to many of us when we leave the Earth to take up living in the afterlife. Our recent Earth experience fades into a dream. Many people choose to keep the dream alive, for example by sustaining a warm heart connection with loved ones left behind on Planet Earth.

Other ITC Gems:

1 How we affect the spirit worlds       2 Reliable look in-beyond      3 Phone chat with an invisible friend      4 Murdered child is found and healed      5 How thoughts create reality      Strangeness of material reality      7 More about Planet Varid      8 Reincarnation from ethereal eyes      9 Convincing a skeptical public      10 How some people reincarnate      11 The end of reincarnation      12 Friedrich Juergenson makes contact      13 How the Luxembourg miracle began      14 How humans,  spirits,  and angels see God      15 The nature of spirit      16 Life on the other side      17 Avoiding dark forces in spirit work     18 How angel pictures are delivered to Earth      19 More afterlife descriptions      20 Timestream and othe spirit groups      21 Time and space in the astral realm      22 How things work in ITC      23 Power of thought      24 Reliable facts about the afterlife      25 Ethereal beings 1      26 Ethereal beings 2      27 Technical  ITC      28 Transimages      29 More transimages      30 Technical ITC: Transvideo   31 Technical ITC conclusions      32 The second epoch      33 Parallel worlds and shadow worlds      34 Medicine and the human spirit       35 Atlantis (Science may be closing in)      36 Humans came from Eden      37 Secrets of life and afterlife      38 Perspective from Beyond      39 The inside story of the afterlife

Advertisements

About Mark Macy

Main interests are other-worldly matters (www.macyafterlife.com) and worldly matters (www.noblesavageworld.com)
This entry was posted in After we die, what then?, Heaven and Earth, Inner exploration, ITC, ITC Gems, Other-worldly matters, Science and Technology, Spiritual realms. Bookmark the permalink.

35 Responses to ITC Gem 6: The Strangeness of Material “Reality”

  1. Liz Wagner says:

    Mark:
    I assume – with mention of “Holy Spirit, Aum, Chi” – that you refer to the Sound that one “hears” constantly, referred to by mystics as the Audible Life Stream, the Holy Sound, etc.etc. various names applied, it rings loud and varies in tone and I believe it it to be the voice of “god” with the power to raise our consciousness to …

    This sound is within us all and I find it strange that so few appear to hear it but then again it’s not something I discuss so don’t really know this. This sound is extraordinarily comforting – some call it tinnitus!!

    Thanks, Mark.
    Liz
    Featherston
    New Zealand

    • Hi Liz,
      I think Aum is what Hindus refer to as the primal sound of the source– Brahman– which manifests as everything.
      So yes, it’s a powerful force!
      Mark

  2. Leslie Harris says:

    Liz,
    Thanks for making an input. I was beginning to think that I was the only one reading Mark’s series. The background sound might in fact be the cosmic radiation attributed to the residue of the big bang, which was recognized by science only in the last 50 or so years.
    Les Harris

  3. Leslie Harris says:

    Mark,
    Salter’s comment on entities which/who do not recognize a past existence generates some interesting speculation.
    From what we read, these entities do not experience birth and maturation into adult life, nor do they experience time as we experience it. Presumably, their view of “life” is that they exist in a static state and therefore have no concept of the progress of life against a time scale, which is our experience.
    It would follow that our experience of birth/maturation/degeneration/death on a time scale is as foreign to them as a continuing timeless existence is to us, and could explain Salter’s comment.
    I wonder if the entities that made such significant contact in the recent past are still interested in what goes on here. Might it be that they are aware of and reading your posts and the responses? Or have they decided that Planet Earth is a lost cause and collectively washed their hands of us and gone on to something else?
    It would be truly wonderful and very encouraging if we were to get some confirmation that they still have some interst in us, however small.
    Les

    • hi Les,
      Interesting you should wonder if they read these posts… I do have a feeling that while I’m writing them I get a lot of inspiration from them (some Timestream spirits and the Seven ethereals), and I think they do keep an interest in efforts to spread the word.
      They probably monitor everyone’s comments on the blog too.
      I don’t think you have to worry, though, about a lightning bolt coming down in response to your caustic comments about Technician. 🙂 They seem like a pretty understanding and patient lot.
      Mark

  4. Leslie Harris says:

    A further thought: has anyone ever collected and referenced all of the communications of Swejen Salter. Of everything that I have read, her comments are the ones that stand out because they are not phrased in esoterics or equivocation. They are, to use a very mixed similie, “down to earth”.
    Les Harris

    • I’m sure I don’t have ALL of Swejen’s contacts. She and maggy enjoyed some intimate phone calls, like a couple of close friends, which were never made public.
      But I know I have most of them… and they’ll all be included in what I’ll be posting as “ITC Gems” in the coming months.

  5. Leslie Harris says:

    I am relieved that Stephen Valadez made the following comment: “The Technician is wonderful but it seems too far removed to offer insight at this more down to earth level of explanation and astral locale.”
    This is fair comment.
    The Technician comes over as a peevish, short-tempered old school master. What he says is undoubtedly well-founded but the delivery is most off-putting.
    Swejen Salter speaks in familiar and conversational terms. What she says is no less or no more important or interesting but, to me, much more acceptable.
    This is the difference between preaching and teaching.
    Les Harris

    • Les.
      It’s interesting how you see his messages reflecting a temperamental nature… while all I see is a patient effort to explain things to us humans as clearly as possible.
      One thing the Ethereals told us INIT member over and over, though, was not to shy away from animated debates, but to get all the feelings on the table and discuss them… to come up with an understanding.
      So I know they appreciate your penetrating comments!
      Mark

      (I add this a few years later (Feb2014). Upon further reflection, yes, Technician does seem more forthright than the other Seven, as I talk about here: https://macyafterlife.com/2011/11/26/the-human-story-5-the-seven-ethereals/ )

  6. Leslie Harris says:

    Swejen: “I found it frightening and fascinating to find out that energy and matter are one and the same thing . . .”

    When I started reading on EVP/ITC earlier this year, it was just after having read several summaries of current thinking in particle physics; this proved to be an ideal starting point.

    For a very long time (dating back to the Greeks), it was assumed that there had to be a smallest particle of matter that could exist; it was given the name atom. This concept served well until it was discovered that the atom was not of itself a solid particle but that it consisted of much smaller charged and non-charged particles, and so the “atom” could no longer be considered as a stand-alone solid object.

    A hundred years on, we started getting into truly startling territory. There is a current strong hypothesis that if a large cathederal represented an atom, an average sized book in the middle of the floor would represent the nucleus and that electrons would be represented by several moths fluttering around the walls. The atom, hitherto reasonably considered to be solid, actually consists of these particles surrounded by 99.9999% of nothing.

    From there on, things start to get very strange indeed.

    It has been calculated that if the particles that make up the entire human race could be collected together without the free space, the entire human race would fit into a cube the size of a sugar cube.

    Weird? We have barely started!

    It has proved to impossible (so far) to determine if the bits than make up the atom are particles (solid) or waves (energy), and these particles/waves can be anywhere or nowhere, depending on how they are being observed.

    And it doesn’t stop there.

    Einstein proposed a long time back that mass and energy are in fact the same thing and most thinking since then confirms this, including the particles/waves that are now causing a lot of observational problems.

    And what is the relevance of this?

    Go back to Swejen’s opening statement. We already knew this, but that is not the most important thing. What is more important is that stuff that we thought was immutably solid is in fact nearly entirely fresh air. Solid as a brick? We have to think again. If a brick is largely fresh air, what else don’t we know about ‘solid’ matter?

    How can we know that other dimensions don’t exist? We don’t. Particle/quantum physicists are now considering the theory that there might be as many as ten dimension because that what it takes to even approach explaining what we are now finding about particle behaviour at the quantum level.

    This is very bad news for sceptics who maintain that the entire universe is confined to the four dimensions that we are aware of and nothing more.

    Hang in there, Swejen, and keep reading the scientific press of Planet Earth because we are all going to discover some amazing things.

    Les Harris

    • See, that’s exactly what I’m talking about!
      The importance of deep reflections… an effort to reconcile science and spirit. All very important to ITC!
      Thanks for this interesting treatise on modern physics.
      I plan to reread it several times to digest the information.
      Mark

  7. Stephen J. Valadez says:

    Swejen was a little off about our “Terra.” Fermium was discovered in the 1950s; it’s a radioactive isotope named after Enrico Fermi. As to Hahn Particles…don’t quite know what they are, but they are probably related somehow to the physicist Otto Hahn.

    We’re not all that primitive Ms. Salter! 😉

    Also, thanks Leslie. You got my point. As a side note I also find Swejen fascinating as to her coming from a parallel but physical universe, in the many worlds quantum theory sense. I’d like to know more about Varid, what it was like, what the history of the humans on it is, etc. Salter is an Anglo-Saxon name, so can we assume a UK exists there too? 🙂

  8. Stephen J. Valadez says:

    Also Mark, great point about the UFOs. If they are indeed from elsewhere in the physical universe and capable of superluminal travel, they would probably have to access higher dimensions, “hyperspaces” if you will, where the speed of light is higher etc. it would seem. A “world of tachyons” as one ITC speaker said describing its subtler abode. Couldn’t that be the “afterlife” as we say, or part of it? That the higher dimensions of physics are really levels of the old afterlife as described by religions?
    No wonder that the “visitors” of Whitley Strieber, and other UFOnauts, are so often seen with the dead.

    • Yes, Swejen once told us that how quickly we get settled in on the other side depends to a large degree how quickly we can come to terms with the many dwarfs, giants, humanoids, and nonhuman beings sharing their world.
      It’ll be great when physicists focus less on propulsion and guidance, and more on moving smoothly to subtler dimensions, then moving at the speed of thought to other locations before ‘blinking back in’ to the material universe.
      It would get us off that slippery foundation of petroleum. 🙂
      Mark

  9. Alex says:

    At one time, Perhaps in “Breakthroughs,” I remember a spirit colleague, perhaps Salter, being asked about the nature of UFOs.

    I recall they stated that, from their perspective, they don’t really know too much about the subject. They acknowledged their existence, but stated that UFOs represent a separate phenomenon from their third or fourth realm of existence.

    Personally, I really think that Jacques Vallee pretty much solved the UFO problem as far as it can currently be taken.

    He basically stopped studying the phenomenon because what you see during a UFO event is pure theatre designed specifically for the observer – in other words, what you see is not what you get. He concludes that they represent some sort of “control system” designed to socially and mentally engineer the observer. It sounds outlandish, but all evidence does point in this direction.

    Furthermore, so called “UFO entities” or “Space Brothers” have been contacting individuals and groups on Earth for decades. The credible research is vast.

    UFOs and the energies associated with them are almost certainly not from other physical planets. A strange fact is the majority of UFO occupants that have been credibly documented are almost always 5′ 6″ normal-looking human men in white coveralls, of all things!

    On certain occasions, they seem to purposefully stage encounters that strive to illicit a markedly extra-terrestrial feel, like the famous and well-documented Voronezh UFO Landing in Russia. Although still humanoid (why would E.T.s be humanoid?), their appearance was straight out of a 50’s sci-fi movie –

    “Members of a crowd that had gathered near the craft stated that they had seen a “three-eyed alien about 10 feet tall, clad in silvery overalls and bronze-colored boots and wearing a disk on his chest.” I’m constantly reminded of NLP techniques (covert hypnosis) when I study UFO close encounters.

    The ancient Chinese somewhat regularly observed dragons and “flying shields” haunting their night skies. In medieval times, witches with fiery lanterns tethered to their brooms were often spotted haunting the otherwise vacuous airspace.

    American UFOs didn’t really appear as silvery discs until about the 1940s. Prior to that, they usually manifested themselves as physics-defying dirigibles. The famous airship sightings of 1894 illustrates this point very well – they seem to appear in harmony with what is right around the corner concerning popular culture.

    Today, the most recent UFO footage I have seen and deem to be credible, they usually have morphing shapes (quite reminiscent of rotating computer illustrations of hyper objects, like tesseracts for instance). You don’t see ‘flying saucers’ that often anymore. They seem to purposely convey a hyper-reality feel.

    Our perceptions of ‘alien spacecraft’ have changed…and so have they. Chicken or the egg, anyone? Yes, there seems to be a tangible pattern here.

    On their documented ethics; they always lie, manipulate and speak in half truths. Their rhetoric is nearly identical to the ITC contacts of Transgroup 2109. Sometimes hostile, sometimes bizarre and creepy, sometimes nurturing and friendly. Sometimes their scientific data is spot on and way beyond what mainstream science has yet to confirm (but suspects), sometimes it is mundane and almost childish. They are heavy on predictions, but nearly always lie. They go WAY out of their way to be absurd. There is simply no consistent high moral value associated with their contacts.

    I could go on and on (I’ve been studying the UFO phenomenon since about 1992), but I would avoid putting too much credence in the sighting and close encounter aspect UFOs – it will lead you on a wild goose chase.

    Some Vallee books I would recommend –

    1. Passport to Magonia: From Folklore to Flying Saucers
    http://www.amazon.com/Passport-Magonia-Folklore-Parallel-Worlds/dp/0809237962
    2. Messengers of Deception: UFO Contacts and Cults
    http://www.amazon.com/Messengers-Deception-Ufo-Contacts-Cults/dp/0915904381
    3. The Invisible College : What a Group of Scientists Has Discovered About UFO Influences on the Human Race
    http://www.amazon.com/invisible-college-scientists-discovered-influences/dp/0525134700

    When I read contacts from the Seven Beings of Rainbow People–Technician, Ishkumar, Thfirrin, Seth 3, Nsitden, Mrekklin, and Lagelnev, they never give off a creepy or contradictory vibe to me. Sometimes the info they divulge seems cold or harsh, but I take it as out of tough love for humanity. And I would take it a little easy on Technician. He/she didn’t even know how to make a good voice at the beginning, that’s how far he/she is removed from the human condition. If the ‘Rainbow People’ were truly sterile and apathetic, they would simple move on to a higher realm and not even bother with us.

    Thank you everyone for your time and take good care!
    Alex

    • This is fascinating information about UFOs. Thanks Alex… I wasn’t aware of all deception and misinformation among that other-worldly crew.
      I certainly agree with you about The Seven.
      Mark

      • Stephen says:

        Alex,

        Vallee is wonderful. But this kinda brings up the whole: are the UFOs and such from “spiritual planes” or from physical planets with nuts and bolts crafts? argument.

        Couldn’t a species even 1000 years ahead of us be able to be both physical and also reside or pass through higher realms/physical dimensions? Probably how they were able to leave their star systems 1000 years ago in the first place (my point I was making in an above post 🙂 ), or perhaps long before.

        And if a species were say millions of years ahead of us, they could be almost inconceivably odd and theatrical to us (like the grays of UFO lore almost always are when you get to the real cases and not the abduction hype). Vallee’s “control system” could be the interfacial precipitate of a culture so much older than us that we would only interpret it as being outside of time and space and vast beyond imagining…which, for now and for us, it might just be.

        What would a species be like now that achieved sentience when there wasn’t even microbial life on Earth? That’s the vector I’m pushing here.

        • Stephen,
          I’ve come to think of the UFOs and their crews as being basically physical, but with multidimensional capabilities. They can move into subtler realms than our material universe… but probably not as far as what our spirit friends call the 4th and 5th levels… maybe not even the 3rd level.
          We were told that there are parallel physical universes to ours distinguished by slightly different vibratory rates, and I suspect its among some of those dense levels that the UFOs travel… or blink in and out to and from.
          (Pardon the dangling prepositions… which my wife Regina does NOT like.) 🙂

  10. Leslie Harris says:

    Going back to the title of this issue, “The Strangeness of Material Reality”, there’s more . . .

    First, the world of particles is proving to be very strange and does not fit with known physics. What is true for conventional physics just doesn’t hold for quantum physics. In fact, a researcher in this field, talking about emerging theories relating to quantum physics, said “It is no longer a case of whether it (new theories) is weird but whether is it weird enough”.

    It is already known that the component parts of atoms cannot be pinned down for observation. It is recognized that such particles can be observed to be in two places at once, followed by being nowhere to be seen. Furthermore, they can exhibit both wave and particle properties – simultaneously!

    Considerable mental effort is going into trying to understand why this is so. Amongst the serious solutions being considered is – parallel realities. And this is not coming from pot-heads but very serious researchers. The possibility is based on the question, “where are these particles going when they disappear?” A reasonable hypothesis is that they appear in a parallel reality.

    “Material Reality” used to mean that there were four dimensions – the three physical dimensions plus time.

    What does it mean now? Watch this space.

    (And, Swejen, this includes you.)

    Les

    • Stephen says:

      And they would, no doubt also, have a vast “science of the soul” which they seem to be employing here in spurring us on to some sort of spiritual development beyond where we are, so that we can begin to express our humanity across the stars and start on the path to becoming like them…one day far into the future. 😉

      • “Science of the soul” is a good term for it… and I agree: one of the ethereals’ main aim for the ITC bridge to Timestream, I believe, was to hasten our spiritual development and other-worldly understanding.

  11. Leslie Harris says:

    Crikey, this is getting complicated – replies to replies scattered over several recent postings. Sometimes it takes time to work out who is replying to what.

    Quote: “It’s interesting how you see his messages reflecting a temperamental nature… while all I see is a patient effort to explain things to us humans as clearly as possible.”

    I see some of the messages attributed to the Technician as being hopelessly removed from the reality of our Here and Now. In telling us to be good little boys and girls, he is preaching to the converted. And how many might that be? Being charitable, it might be 6000 people out of 6,000,000,000 – 0.000001% of the population. (It is probably more like 600.) Notably, he offers no advice on how we can turn the other 99.999999% of the population through 180 degrees and set them on the “right path”.

    There is nothing tempremental in this – the technician is of a single steadfast view that the entire population has to be turned around by this microscopic percentage.

    I have previously referred to the Technician as petulant (not tempremental) for pulling Timestream out of all the significant contact that was happening because this microscopic percentage isn’t able to control the entire population of this planet. The very few serious people are being punished for something over which they have absolutely no control. I call that petulant.

    If it were not for Swejen Salter, we would have had no point of comparison and we would probably have accepted that all higher entities were the same as the Technician. Swejen’s approach is that of the wise and kind mother. The Technician’s approach is that of the impatient, peevish old school master.

    Given that Timestream was able to make contact via several different media, including two way contact, I sincerely hope that they are monitoring exchanges such as those on this website. Actually, I would be disappointed if they weren’t. But, who knows? It is possible that the Technician has decreed that the human situation on Planet Earth is a lost cause and directed Timestream’s energies to the seven legged toads on Planet XYZ in the 47th parallel universe. We don’t know, because they aren’t talking to us any more.

    Les

  12. Leslie Harris says:

    Going back to square one is sometimes useful to clarify thinking.

    To me, square one is that all significant contact with Timestream has stopped.

    The logical question that follows is: Is there any way that we (the serious seekers on Planet Earth) can entice Timestream to resume contact?

    Has anyone got any ideas or are we going to be confined speculation for the next two or twenty or two hundred years?

    I am sad about the situation extant because there seems to be little hope of significant contact being resumed in my lifetime.

    Les

    • Yes, that does seem to be square one.
      I was obsessed with those same questions after the breakdown of INIT… for several years.
      Now I’ve resigned myself to sharing all we learned from the amazing experience.
      For example, one thing they (the ethereals) told us several times was that they wouldn’t just keep sending us new information as long as we weren’t effectively spreading the word. So yes, I think this blog could help in a big way if it generates interest and discussion.
      To say I’d welcome more extraordinary ITC contacts would be the understatement of a lifetime!
      Mark

  13. Leslie Harris says:

    The Augean stables comes to mind . . .

  14. Thanks for mentioning the Augean stables, a term I hadn’t heard. I googled it…

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augeas

    … and found the fascinating story of king Augeus defaulting on his promised reward to the god Hercules for removing 30 years worth of dung from the stable of the king’s enormous herd of horses in a single day. Apparently Hercules had no problem doing the dirty work, but that other crap–getting bilked–was unacceptable… and he killed the king.
    Great story, and I’d love to learn someday how closely the gods of Greece, Rome, and other ancient empires (whom I’m certain are not just the stuff of legend) relate to the reality of the superhuman Edenites who got stranded on Earth long ago and produced a species of gods who walked our world down through the ages, mingling with the more animalistic humans… and I’d love to know whether and if so how The Seven ethereals were connected to those ancient Edenites.

    Meanwhile… I’m not sure how the Augean stables relate to INIT and the ethereals as implied by your comment… but you’ve provided food for thought and a fascinating adventure through the worldwide archives this rainy Saturday morning!
    Thanks for that…
    Mark

  15. Leslie Harris says:

    Mark,

    In this context, it is used to describe a superhuman task. It isn’t common parlance but it is still in use, particularly by people with knowledge of Greek and Roman mythology. In today’s world, in which anything that is not on Facebook or Youtube can’t possibly be worth knowing about, this and similar references will die out very soon.

    I was thinking about the practicalities of spreading knowledge and realized that I probably know six people to whom I could describe EVP/ITC and know that they would consider what I said on the basis of established facts and without mental walls of the “no, that’s impossible” variety.

    This can probably be extrapolated to the miniscule number of people with a serious interest and the total number of people to whom this could be proselytised wouldn’t amount to more than several thousand – hence the reference to the Augean stables.

    Whilst such conclusions might be seen as a negativity, it is no more than recognizing the paracticality. Which brings us back to the original question – what can we do to make this known and what can we do to try to get Timestream to talk to us?

    (It is my hope that this being read and considered in the Beyond Here, perhaps even by Timestream.)

    It is curious to see that the apparent high enthusiasm shown by Timestream to communicate with us has given way to shutting the shop after telling us to go out and change the world. The conclusion is unavoidable that Timestream et al are completely unaware of the true conditions in our Here and Now.

    Could it be that the entities assume that the few people with whom they have had serious contact are representative of the entire human race when in fact they are almost diametrically opposed in their thinking to the rest of the world and in any event comprise about 0.000001% of the population? Who knows!

    Les

  16. Liz Wagner says:

    Les:
    Yes, Les, you raise a very interesting and valid point : the tiny percentage of people with curiosity on what I consider to be a topic of major importance. Also, having a mind that believes much, doubts much, and always seeking evidential proof, I do sometimes wonder if Timestream was a hoax perpetrated by well-intentioned people, possibly science-fiction writers (with a sense of the absurd) who devised a sophisticated, elaborate and believable scenario and then they died or lost interest. I don’t know, I have no idea. If it’s all “true” then, yes, it could well be centuries away till contact is made again. I know no-one amongst my friends who would show the slightest interest in this subject. For myself it is all-consuming. Oh well..
    Liz Wagner

  17. Leslie Harris says:

    Liz,

    The hoax possibility niggles at me also from time to time but the entire matter of EVP/ITC might eventually have to be judged on the balance of probabilities.

    Because I am a late-comer to this field of interest, I have yet to accumulate enough information and enough over-sight to be albe to make such an assessment. What I lack so far is any direct experience of EVP or ITC, so an assessment will have to wait for a while yet.

    So far, my reading suggests to me that the totality of all EVP/ITC experience (not just Timestream) is such that it is probably beyond the limits of any organized hoax but I reserve my judgement until I have more information.

    Something that gets me annoyed is the brain-dead sceptics who dismiss this field of enquiry out of hand. When presented with a set of fundamental facts, they offer a possible explanation and then sit back, lace their fingers over their ample stomachs and say “I have proved it the be false.

    In fact, they have done no such thing. They have offered an untested hypothesis, then made the illogical jump to claiming it to be the only hypothesis, QED.

    As you say, oh well . . .

    Les

  18. Hi Liz and Les, I started to post a reply to your comments, but it soon became too long to include here… so I added it to my new post:
    https://macyafterlife.wordpress.com/2010/06/13/itc-gem-9-convincing-a-skeptical-public/
    Thanks for contributing so much to these discussions!
    Mark

  19. Lisa I. says:

    I’m reading all these posts and am so interested! I’ve read Lynne McTaggert’s books “The Field” and “The Intention Experiment” over the past couple of years, which both follow the frontier scientists’ experiments and results, which are so fascinating. Dan Brown’s book, “The Lost Symbol” talks about Noetic Science. It’s right in line with these concepts. That, plus the ITC communications also fall in with the concepts of the New Thought movement, namely United Centers for Spiritual Living (formerly known as Science of Mind), which I was introduced to back in the 1980s. This all ties in together.

    The point I’m getting at here is that these concepts are very much getting into the mainstream. I saw a video on YouTube recently where CNN had an interview with their celeb doctor (Gupta), and a couple of other doctors, who were discussing proof of survival of the soul! Who would have thought 10 years ago, a subject like this would be accepted by mainstream media? I tell you, the time is getting very ripe for these concepts and for these ITC messages to be accepted as truth among the mainstream. Look at the popularity of TV shows like “Ghost Adventurers and Ghost Hunters”. I stumbled upon the whole ITC info because I watched a few episodes of Ghost Adventurers and it scared the daylights out of me. In my quest to find info to debunk it to ally my fear, I found out ghosts are in fact real, but understand what they are. My searching led me to the Leslie Flint recordings, and David Thompson’s materialization mediumship, both of which totally blew my mind because I really do believe it to be real. Further digging led me to Mark’s spirit faces website, and then ultimately to this blog, which I have found to be a treasure trove if information that I’m so enjoying. It filled in all the gaps I was wondering about in Science of Mind and has done more to convince my subconscious that God is All than 20 years of affirmations have.

    Anyway… the gist of this very long comment is that these ITC communications more than prove that the quantum physicists are correct, that the New Thought beliefs are correct (they say that there are many paths to the Source), and that we truly are eternal beings living a limited physical existence here on Earth.

    I’ve thanked you before, Mark, but I must say it again. I feel a connection with all of you on here.

  20. Stephen J. Valadez says:

    I was re-reading this after a few years. Swejen Salter fascinates me. She said though as I’ve mentioned a few years back that fermium had as of this contact in the 1980s not yet been discovered though it had been in 1952. Just wondering what she was thinking…an oversight on her part? And on further thought what she said about us not having yet discovered “Hahn particles”; I’m wondering if she was talking about the Higgs Boson.

    • Mark Macy says:

      Good points, Stephen. From wikipedia:
      “Fermium was first discovered in the fallout from the ‘Ivy Mike’ nuclear test (1 November 1952), the first successful test of a hydrogen bomb.”

      I noticed over the years that our spirit friends made a few errors when describing our world from their viewpoint. Most of the errors related to time and space, which are illusory (in the big picture) and very hard to pin down. Not noticing fermium might have to do with Swejen working with Earth physicists, now at timestream spirit group, who had lived on Earth before the 1950s. Just speculation….

      About the Hahn particle being called the Higgs Boson….
      I did a search this morning on physicists named “Hahn” working with Higgs Boson, and came up with this…
      http://wwwth.mpp.mpg.de/members/hahn/

      Probably just a coincidence, but from what our spirit friends have told us about people living parallel lives in parallel worlds, it makes one think!….

      Thanks for that interesting idea,
      Mark

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s