ITC Gem 14: How Humans, Spirits and Angels See God

Editor’s note: Today we look at the concept of God from several different views.

Maggy is the Luxembourg ITC researcher who began receiving miraculous communications from her spirit friends in the late 1980s. Her view of God, as the ultimate focus of spiritual pursuit, centers around her evolving understanding of the purpose of ITC, and her efforts to sustain a clear contact field, which made her ITC miracles possible.

Swejen is Maggy’s principle spirit communicator, the manager of the Timestream spirit group located on what she has described as the third level of spiritual existence, also called the mid-astral planes. It’s a spiritual world (non-material, but with familiar forms and structures composed of energies and consciousness) much like our own physical world, where many people from Earth awaken after they die. Swejen had been a scientist on an Earth-like physical world before her death and had carried her scientific predisposition into the next life… so her view of God has evolved to a large degree out of her scientific understanding.

Technician and Ishkumar are two of seven ethereal beings who say they’ve been following our world for thousands of years. It’s The Seven who had the power and purpose to open and sustain the miraculous ITC bridge between Maggy (and her INIT colleagues here on Earth such as myself) and our spirit friends, up until around the year 2000, when our group came apart. During my ITC research as a member of INIT, I found that the ethereal view of God (and of most other issues) is more far reliable than the understanding of people on Earth… and of people who have died and gotten settled into a paradise existence, who seem to have a view of things slightly elevated over earthly understanding, but still far removed from ethereal wisdom.

– – –  From the archives of CETL and INIT – – –

Earthly perspectives. In 1988, early in her experiments, Maggy wrote:

“The final decision for the road to Light, which is God, means separation from people who avoid spiritual development and want to remain neutral.

“We (she and her husband Jules) used to share the opinion of many, that once we had a breakthrough in clear, two-way communication (with our spirit friends), our goal (as ITC researchers) had been reached. In time we realized that we are only at the beginning. A new phase of ITC begins when the door into other dimensions is opened.

“We have come to a point where participation in ITC again demands changes. The harmony and tune-ability among participating and associated people have to contribute more favorably to future communications. Our contacts in the spiritual world indicate a net of positive energy which is slowly spreading over and among like-minded experimenters. Our scientists refer to it as morphogenetic fields.

“The spiritual search should be our main goal in ITC, not curiosity and sensationalism. The God principle in our spiritual development should attract us more than the contact with our loved ones…. Prayers and thanksgiving seem to open doors. The less we demand, the more we receive.

“Certain individuals who do not project a spiritual appearance are praised by the other side for their spiritual development.

“The spiritside allows for human mistakes, but finds hypocrisy displeasing.”

Astral perspectives. In 1991, Maggy received this contact from her spirit friend Swejen, via telephone:

God, the Principal, the Creator or whatever else you wish to call him is everywhere. He is in the universe and the universe is in Him. However, the Universe and therefore God are two entities. (The states of) being and non-being. Matter and nonmatter. Scientists have often tried to explain what matter is and I believe I can spare myself another explanation. Nonmatter is not to be compared to anti-matter but is really what we describe as soul or spirit. Every living creature, even an amoeba or a bacillus, has a soul….”

Ethereal perspectives. In 1992, Maggy got this message during a phone conversation with Technician, the first of The Seven to make contact:

The contacts of spirit beings with earth is only a partial aspect of ITC. They should serve as proof that you will live forever and have a higher calling. Ethereal beings in finer realms are not particularly interested in contacts between dimensions, but they support it because they can bring man closer to the realization of eternal life and the principle or being that you call God, Yahweh or Nirvana.

In 1996, our INIT group received this message from Ishkumar, another of The Seven. The message simply “manifested itself” as a file in the computer of Maggy, our Luxembourg member:

Many of you have a false impression about us. Unfortunately this is often the case with your mediums, who recognize only part of us.

Also, there are a great number of people who claim to have a direct connection to God, Jaweh or Jehovah. Some ITC experimenters believe this. It is not correct.

Many Earth people mistakenly perceive God as a person or an individual entity. God is not a person, but the highest principle of life, as well as the absolute reality.

He, or IT, is the absolute unity and the absolute, unlimited and all-encompassing Universe. As a limitless entity, the universe can never be one of the creative individuals who are numerous in the cosmos.

Nor is it tenable that there is a single Son of God for the entire cosmos. Jesus Christ, today a part of Pescator, has never described himself as such.

Since God, ultimately, is everything, and everything is God, it makes no difference which religion you belong to. There is only one universal truth which can be found through the path of decency. For those who follow eternal principles, the doors to freedom are open.

Signed, Ishkumar

– – –  End of the archival report – – –

 (That final message from Ishkumar was documented in the 1996/03 issue of our Contact! journal. Click here to view that issue.)

Other ITC Gems:

1 How we affect the spirit worlds       2 Reliable look in-beyond      3 Phone chat with an invisible friend      4 Murdered child is found and healed      5 How thoughts create reality      Strangeness of material reality      7 More about Planet Varid      8 Reincarnation from ethereal eyes      9 Convincing a skeptical public      10 How some people reincarnate      11 The end of reincarnation      12 Friedrich Juergenson makes contact      13 How the Luxembourg miracle began      14 How humans,  spirits,  and angels see God      15 The nature of spirit      16 Life on the other side      17 Avoiding dark forces in spirit work     18 How angel pictures are delivered to Earth      19 More afterlife descriptions      20 Timestream and othe spirit groups      21 Time and space in the astral realm      22 How things work in ITC      23 Power of thought      24 Reliable facts about the afterlife      25 Ethereal beings 1      26 Ethereal beings 2      27 Technical  ITC      28 Transimages      29 More transimages      30 Technical ITC: Transvideo   31 Technical ITC conclusions      32 The second epoch      33 Parallel worlds and shadow worlds      34 Medicine and the human spirit       35 Atlantis (Science may be closing in)      36 Humans came from Eden      37 Secrets of life and afterlife      38 Perspective from Beyond

About Mark Macy

Main interests are other-worldly matters ( and worldly matters (
This entry was posted in After we die, what then?, Heaven and Earth, ITC Gems, Other-worldly matters, Science and Technology, Spiritual realms. Bookmark the permalink.

21 Responses to ITC Gem 14: How Humans, Spirits and Angels See God

  1. Stephen says:

    Were there any recordings of Swejen Salter like there were with Konstantin Raudive, etc. ?


    • Hi Stephen,
      It’s my understanding that Maggy (the Luxembourg researcher) recorded many phone conversations with her spirit friend Swejen Salter… but to my knowledge, she never made them public.
      Being no longer in touch with her, I can only assume that she has some amazing archives of transcontacts that (hopefully) she will someday share with the world. On the other hand, they spoke intimately of private things, like two close friends… and she may want to keep things private for that reason. Just speculating, based on my memories of her and her husband as very private people.
      The important, less personal information about the spirit worlds, Swejen’s lifetime, parallel worlds, and so on… I believe Maggy tried to share as much of that as possible, most of which Hans Heckmann and I translated into English and published.

      • Nicola says:

        Hello again Mark

        I’m trying to put this as delicately as possible so as not to offend, but shouldn’t all ITC work, including and especially Maggy’s recordings, have been made available to mankind? As surely the aim was to enlighten the masses and not just a few ‘special’ people? Although the transcripts are great, they absolutely need to be backed up by voice, the entire point of ITC, particularly in these days of hard headed materialism and so many lost souls.

        Was Maggy instructed to transcribe (I know you interpreted) rather than publish the very much more persuasive recordings?


        • Mark Macy says:

          Hi Nicola,
          I don’t know whether Maggy ever got around to making her many recordings public.
          I agree that it would great to have them accessible to the public to hear.

          I did publish most of my audio clips and some other people’s on my spiritfaces website:


          • Nicola says:

            Is that you talking to Konstantin Raudive when he was getting all technical?

            I was using a ghost box app recently and asked whether anybody listening had heard of TimeStream. The answers I got (very much class C or lower) were a male saying ‘Konstantin Raudive’ and a female saying ‘He doesn’t work (unintelligible)’.

            The odd thing about this was I was only *consciously* aware of his involvement in ITC earthside – and of course I had heard the tapes of his telephone conversations with us here once he was spiritside but hadn’t put everything together at that point and realised he was working with TimeStream, so when I heard his name real-time, I was puzzled as to why he would be mentioned in conjunction with TS. O.o

            Do you have a forum for discussions like this? I fear my posts will get too long, or too frequent otherwise.

          • Mark Macy says:

            Hi Nicola,
            Yes, that was me talking to konstantin Raudive when he suggested I get a VHF converter for the radio setup in my lab.
            When he was working with Timestream he told us on Earth that it’s his calling, since crossing over, to try to make contact with experimenters on Earth.
            If you heard his name in some of your experiments, chances are it was him trying to make EVP contact with you.

            I don’t have a forum for these communications, but we can continue to dialog here through this site, if it works for you…

          • Nicola says:

            There isn’t a link to reply on your latest post so I had to use this one.
            I don’t think the voice mentioning Konstantin Raudive was his, however during today’s experiment, requesting communication with a 3rd realm spirit and talking about Timestream, I repeatedly received replies in a low, gravelly voice. Unfortunately totally unintelligible at this time. Either because my ears aren’t trained, or the communication method or connection isn’t strong enough. I will keep on trying and bore you with my results ☺

          • Mark Macy says:

            Good luck, Nicola! 🙂

            (Yes, I think there are only three levels of comment replies allowed. After that we have to do the best we can getting our nested comments where we want them… 🙂 if that makes sense.)

  2. Alex says:

    Excellent update – thank you, Mark.

    I think this passage is of paramount importance – “There is only one universal truth which can be found through the path of decency.”

    With the world in such disconcerting disorder, it makes me truly worry how far off the path we have strayed.


  3. Hi Alex, I agree; that’s a vital comment, suggesting that the teachings and beliefs of all religions are on good paths leading to the same road: decency and good will in human relationships.
    What I’ve learned since INIT, while digesting and studying all of the information given to us by The Seven ethereals, is that humans actually strayed from the path long ago, when our ancient ancestors became a cross between the god-like superhumans of Eden (among whom I suspect decency and good will were a way of life) and the animals of Earth, which needed a ruthless edge to survive in a world of predators.
    We’ve been walking along that more precarious path here on Earth ever since, guided in part by a love and trust toward those around us… and also in part by a suspicion and defensiveness, uncertain of their motivations.
    I believe that what the ethereals want for us is to come to terms our dual human nature, devoting some effort in our day-to-day lives to foster our noble side, while gently moving our savage tendencies to the back seat. Maybe that’s the best we humans on Earth can hope to achieve while inhabiting these dense bodies… and by doing that, raise the vibration of our world.

    Another important thing they mentioned in those messages (which my wife Regina was wondering about this morning) is that God “is the absolute unity and the absolute, unlimited and all-encompassing Universe. As a limitless entity, the universe can never be one of the creative individuals who are numerous in the cosmos….”
    She and I, like most people in western culture, often pray to God for guidance and support and to express gratitude. So, she wondered, if God is not “a creative individual,” are we wasting our breath addressing it, or Him?
    We came to the realization that there are many, many brilliant facilitators for God, such as The Seven ethereals, many other angels, and the spirits of prophets such as Jesus and Mohammed and their vast spirit-world contingents, who can and do “intercept” our prayers and act upon them. So, by praying to God, we may not be accessing one supreme being itself, as we typically assume, but a vast host of subtle beings and forces that can bring miracles and grace into our lives.
    Anyway, that’s my take on THAT part of the message about God… for what it’s worth….

  4. Leslie Harris says:

    This is getting into extremely nebulous territory.
    This planet abounds with thousands of deities, most of which are claimed by their adherents to be the “one true” deity, and many of which are so fundamentally weak in doctrine that their adherents are commanded to kill the adherents of all competing doctrines. (The fundamental weakness is that none of them can withstand any form of rigorous investigation, including demonstration of the existence of their deity.)
    All of them demand that prayers be offered to the particular deity, the existence of which cannot be demonstrated in any way. The demands are made by the self appointed human spokesmen, all of whom claim to have been appointed by the deity whose existence cannot be demonstrated.
    So we have obligatory prayers to a claimed deity whose existence cannot be demonstrated but who is claimed to hear every prayer and to know if each and every adherent has or has not offered an obligatory prayer.
    In our thinking, everything has a starting point and an ending point. We have a Universe that we think started from a singularity some 13 billion years ago. And where did that singularity come from? Logically, it came from a previous collapsing Universe. The process could be ad infinitum.
    But our thinking, our logic, looks for attribution – who or what is the cause? Logic suggests a single cause and entities such as Silver Birch attribute this to a single Great Spirit. The claims by many thousands of religions on this planet, that each individual deity is the only one true deity, are untenable, whilst the Great Spirit concept is tenable, at least in logic.
    Should one therefore pray to the Great Spirit?
    The concept of prayer originates in the minds of the self-serving, self-appointed mouthpieces of the countless deities they claim to represent. The concept of a Great Spirit as the originator of everything has support in logic but “praying” to such a spirit do not.
    Most religions have a basis of proselytising a “moral” existence but they fall in a heap by linking the “moral” existence exclusively to their particular religion. Some go totally overboard and state that only adherents of their particular brand of religion can lead a “moral” existence, and that “morals” cannot exist outside of their particular brand of religion.
    Most religions claim that their concepts are self-evident therefore make their religion only correct one – then employ armies of drum-beaters to “explain” (preach) why this is so. The self contradiction is utterly lost on them.
    So, should we pray to something?
    Is there an old man with a long white beard and wearing a night shirt sitting on a high stool keeping a tally of every human? Logically, no. Does every other inhabited planet in the Universe (and there must be millions of them) have its own old man in a night shirt? Or is it just one old man in a night shirt for the whole Universe?
    I think not.
    Les Harris

  5. Leslie Harris says:


    There is something that completely puzzles me about Maggy and Jules.

    They were at the heart of the most interesting phase of EVP/ITC ever known on this planet but, as far as the rest of the world knows, have completely stopped. It doesn’t make any sense, at least to an outsider like me.

    Have you any idea why?


    • Sorry for the delay in answering this, Les. Yes, their great contacts stopped almost as soon as our INIT group disbanded. The Seven ethereals had told us once in a voice contact:
      “We, the Seven, have decided to help and support the way chosen by you in INIT. It is the way of morals, which means to understand, to acknowledge, to devise and to act. It is not to be mixed up with religion, which means to believe. The two can be complementary, but they are independent, one to the other.”
      They were telling is that genuine morality, from an ethereal point of view, involves 1) understanding the information we get from our higher self and from finer spiritual beings (in whatever manner we get that information), 2) to acknowledge that we got the information, 3) to change it however necessary to fit our lives and our world, and 4) to act on it.
      I think the message was beyond the grasp of most of us at the time, and might have gotten lost in the shuffle of all the amazing things that were happening to all of us.
      In any case, human nature with its egos and hormones, stirred up a bit by troubled spirits, caused the fabric of our group to unravel in some ugly ways. So The Seven backed off… and they were the ones who made the miracles possible. They hadn’t said they would support the way chosen by Maggy, or by Mark, or by any other member… but the way chosen by INIT.
      Anyway, all members went their separate paths. My path includes trying to fit into that definition of morality, by digesting the information they gave us, processing it, and presenting it to the world through books, youtube, CDs, and most fun for me… this blog!
      Um-m, what was your question? :-)))
      Oh yes, the last I heard, Maggy was still doing EVP experiments, hoping to build the contact field back up for more elaborate ITC communications.
      Having known her, I doubt she would simply abandon the work. She was always tireless and dedicated.

      • Leslie Harris says:


        Thanks for the response. I might be a bit of a thorn in your side with my constant questions but this is my only path to acquiring knowledge. You are being called on the explain the near unexplainable and thanks for continuing to do so for the likes of me.


  6. Hi Les, your questions and insights are great… much appreciated by many, I’m sure, including me. Hardly a thorn.
    (Well, maybe a bit of a thorn at times… but your many insights bloom well, making the little barbs easily forgettable.)
    Anyway, I have to admit, I was wrong in my lengthy reply to you above… where I said that Maggy stopped getting good contacts when INIT disbanded.
    She continued to get contacts from Timestream and The Seven for several years… as described in a link provided by Stephen in his comment on another post on this blog…
    … where he gives a link to the work of Ron Bryan, the Texas A&M physicist who I sort of introduced to Maggy after she and I took separate research paths, and who visited her several times. This link to one of Ron’s Powerpoint presentations puts Maggy’s later work into more perspective…

  7. Jenn says:

    I looked at the Power Point presentation linked in the above comment about Ron. Did the conference focus on Seth as the wording of the link suggests? Perhaps the presentation at the link was cut short. I was curious about Seth 3 but didn’t see anything specific on the presentation. What am I missing?

    Thank you for this work.

  8. Jenn, there’s no connection between the channeled entity Seth and the Seth 3 involved in ITC. There are many followers of the Seth channeled materials, and there’s an annual Seth Conference (


  9. Jenn says:

    Thank you, Mark.

    I found a video that Maggy and Jules have of Seth on Youtube, and I used Googel translation to help me translate the German into English. It’s here: The message from Seth 3 in the video is roughly what’s below:

    “seth a creature from the fourth level. all that we notify you of direct contact man knows right from the beginning of its existence. but man has lost its essence, because of negative spiritual ignorance. she must not look down on others, when all the faults of others lurking in her. However, it is for people planning a new way of life. man will undergo a metamorphosis (change).”

    Can you please tell me the source of the image for Seth 3 of the androgynous being with large eyes and apparently white hair and light eyes?

    Also, I saw the picture of Seth 3 in the video somewhere on your site,, which I love, and that picture of Seth 3 was compared to two other similar images that I think were manifest in crystals? I’m pretty sure it was on your site. Do you know what I’m talking about?

    Thanks, Mark.


  10. Jenn, Adolf Homes received that picture of Seth 3, as discussed here:

    I could be wrong, but I don’t think Maggy and Jules created that video that’s on youtube. They probably would have been more diligent in describing the clip and identifying it ‘officially’ as posted by CETL, or whatever organizational name they’re currently working under.
    (note that the ‘4th level’ is not very “high” or elevated spiritually. It’s still in the astral realms where there are lots of misconceptions about things.)


  11. Jenn says:

    Hi Mark, thanks for your feedback.

    I finally found the link with the well-known image of Seth 3 compared to faces in two crystals developed by Diana and Alan Bennett:

  12. Thanks Jenn. Interesting.
    I’m not so sure those faces caught in crystal are the being Seth 3.
    Regardless, they’re excellent faces in their detail… good examples of spirit face photography.
    As the link says, not much information was given to ITC researchers about Seth 3…

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