Editor’s note: There’s a lot of debate about reincarnation. In this report by CETL of Luxembourg in 1992, we see how the process actually happens on the spiritside… at least among our friends at Timestream.
– – – CETL Report – – –
On Jan. 14, 1992, Swejen Salter, the head of Timestream Spirit Group, described how some people in spirit experience the process of reincarnating.
Earthside: Swejen, you told me the people in your world live similarly to people on earth. They have a body as we do but have no diseases or complaints and enjoy a pleasant existence. They live together with relatives or with people to whom they are attracted. Surely, their departure from their friends must be difficult when they return to earth for a new existence? Do people decide themselves how and when they incarnate?
Spiritside: In many cases, people decide themselves. In some cases they are also being told by higher beings. Nobody is forced to return. To many, the process is like an inner voice that reminds them of their duties and lessons that are still waiting for them on earth. They may delay these tasks for many years but know they cannot avoid them forever.
Many people depend on being reminded of their duties by spiritually more evolved beings who tell them when the time has come to go back to earth. They need superior guiding spirits. Others do not like to be reminded of their task. They need neither spirit guides nor other people to tell them what to do. For such spirits there is an inner voice that tells them what they still have to finish on earth.
Whether a spirit guide or an inner voice reminds them is unimportant. The results are always the same.
Earthside: What comes next when they make up their minds. Are there special locations for reembodiment?
Spiritside: When a person of our group has finally decided on reincarnation, higher beings consult with each other about his thoughts and wishes which led him to this decision. When higher beings have consented to a new reincarnation or have motivated a being for such a decision, the person is led to a special building provided for reincarnations.
Earthside: That reminds me a little of dying on our side. Describe the procedure for me, please. Does the person concerned take leave from close spiritual sisters or brothers?
Spiritside: The procedure is similar to people’s arrival here, only this time it is a going back. The person is again placed in what looks like a tub. His body, which on this level usually takes on an average age of 25-30 years, begins to change and becomes increasingly younger and smaller. It returns to the state of a child and then to a baby and finally to a small cell. By the time the body has become a cell, it is no longer present here among us. The cell has meanwhile arrived in the female body of a human being.
Earthside: What makes possible the return process from body to cell on your side, is it done with the help of technical equipment?
Spiritside: Yes, the process takes place with the help of apparatuses.
Earthside: How do people incarnate who have no technical equipment?
Spiritside: With the help of incantations and prayers.
Earthside: So, this is how we all have come back. That is hard to imagine. The soul of the being is therefore in the cell as soon as the cell has developed in the female body?
Spiritside: Yes, at the moment the body disappears for us, the conception has taken place on earth, and the soul is in the cell.
– – – End of CETL Report – – –
Note: Some research has found that the soul might be able to enter the cell, or fetus, anytime between conception and birth, so perhaps “the jury is still out” on the issue of exactly when reincarnation occurs.
Other ITC Gems:
1 How we affect the spirit worlds 2 Reliable look in-beyond 3 Phone chat with an invisible friend 4 Murdered child is found and healed 5 How thoughts create reality 6 Strangeness of material reality 7 More about Planet Varid 8 Reincarnation from ethereal eyes 9 Convincing a skeptical public 10 How some people reincarnate 11 The end of reincarnation 12 Friedrich Juergenson makes contact 13 How the Luxembourg miracle began 14 How humans, spirits, and angels see God 15 The nature of spirit 16 Life on the other side 17 Avoiding dark forces in spirit work 18 How angel pictures are delivered to Earth 19 More afterlife descriptions 20 Timestream and othe spirit groups 21 Time and space in the astral realm 22 How things work in ITC 23 Power of thought 24 Reliable facts about the afterlife 25 Ethereal beings 1 26 Ethereal beings 2 27 Technical ITC 28 Transimages 29 More transimages 30 Technical ITC: Transvideo 31 Technical ITC conclusions 32 The second epoch 33 Parallel worlds and shadow worlds 34 Medicine and the human spirit 35 Atlantis (Science may be closing in) 36 Humans came from Eden 37 Secrets of life and afterlife 38 Perspective from Beyond
Reincarnation back to this rotten-to-the-core planet is, for me, a very good definition of hell.
To force someone back to it after having already struggled through a life here sounds remarkably like punishment
It is both unfortunate and worrying that the rules governing reincarnation – if indeed there are any rules – are not mentioned.
Hey Les, sounds like you’ve had a rough lifetime this go-around.
My view? Although there are a lot of savage realities in this world (overpopulation, suffering….) there’s also amazing beauty here. A few samples…
When we’re able to find that highest place within, whether through private meditation, or with the help of ‘invisible facilitators’ working in the spirit of Christ, Mohammed, the Buddha, Shiva, Vishnu, or Brahma… and doing so while we’re inspired by the beauty of our world… then we can be truly blessed in this lifetime!
Since the posting of Gem 10, I have been hunting through many sources which refer to reincarnation. So far, this hasn’t produced much more than a lot of different opinions but I will keep hunting.
Whilst searching through Myers ‘Beyond Human Personality’, I encountered something that comes up regularly in EVP/ITC literature – reference to clothing in the next levels under various descriptors. This has me utterly baffled.
Prohibitions against nudity are deeply entrenched in most, but not all, human cultures and most stem from religious pronouncements. This highlights the inability of all religions to come to terms with human sexuality. In its worst form, it is heavily loaded against women.
All religions require women to cover themselves and the extreme religions require women to cover themselves completely. Those women who fail to do so are loudly proclaimed to be whores, sinners and similar. At the heart of this is the sheer terror that women’s sexuality strikes into the hearts of religious leaders. Onto women is heaped the blame for the actions of weak-minded men.
This leads to pronouncements to the effect that women who enjoy their sexuality are little better than whores and that no ‘decent’ woman would ever stoop to acknowledgeing that they enjoyed sexual congress with the male of the species.
This leads to the situation where women who dare to breast feed a baby in public get charged with “indecency”! This is an extreme of lunacy because the human race wouldn’t even be here if women had not breast fed for millions of years. Indecent? No, just plain irrational!
The extreme form is seen in the dictates of a prominent Western religion which states that sexual intercourse must be limited to the purpose of procreation only and it is absolutely forbidden to enjoy the process.
This, then, is the human state extant.
But we are talking about a reality beyong our Here and Now, a reality in which all entities have put behind them the frailties of the human condition, where reason has replaced the many irrationalities of the human state . . .
Why, then, do the entities of this level and succeeding levels feel the need to “clothe” themselves? As I said, this has me completely baffled.
And this leads to a worrying speculation. Since this clothing irrationality occurs regularly in the literature and is attributed to higher entities, one must begin to suspect that it is actually written by humans in the Here and Now who are prey to such irrationalities, not by enlightened entities.
Any reasoned argument on this matter would be very welcome.
Don’t know about you, but it’s my experience that most human bodies look a lot better with clothes on. 🙂
We don’t have a rich covering of feathers or fur to hide the wrinkles and bulges… nor to protect us from the elements… so clothing has become an integral part of human civilization, establishing very deep patterns in our thoughts and attitutudes down through the milennia.
We carry all of those patterns along with us to the afterlife, so it’s quite ‘natural’ for our spirit bodies to manifest familiar clothing… even ties and eyeglasses.
It’s not that there are any “rules” or dress codes on the other side, but just our attitudes and expectations forging our reality.
That’s my take on the situation…
Your take on the situation is . . . well, human.
I am in Australia, which had the world’s oldest continuous human culture until the continent was invaded by Europeans 220 years ago and the culture was destroyed.
Prior to this, there were old Aboriginals but never any fat Aboriginals. They might have had some wrinkles but they never had any bulges. The elders were stately and dignified people. They believe that they were born of the land (literally the earth) and that they returned to the land. Their mythology is exceptionally complex, as one would expect of such an old culture. And they saw no need for “clothing”. People were respected for their knowledge and wisdom, not lace ruffles.
Clothing has two functions; the first is weather protection and the second is aggrandisment.
“Civilized” humans set out on the aggrandisment road thousands of years ago. And by ‘civilized’ I mean all the usual trappings of “civilization” – the Roman Legions murdering their way all over Europe, slavery, economic and environmental rape of the planet, Wall Street and all the rest.
In most cultures, clothing is an accoutrement that, outside of weather protection, is designed to reinforce stratification of society, aided and abetted by the priest class, many of whom rely on guilt and fear to keep the population in line and in which bodily shame plays a very big part.
One of Borgia’s books goes on and on and on about levels of raiment that cannot be regarded as anything other than aggrandisment, but Borgia’s books read like Jules Verne for the most part.
This thread is getting away from the core issues of trying to re-establish significant contact so I will keep my doubts about the many anomalies to myself.
Indeed, there is much natural beauty on this planet but we have to be very quick to get a glimpse of it before it is turned into a resort for the obscenely rich, dug up for minerals or destroyed to make way for the world’s terminal and fatal over-population.
Gulf of Mexico anyone?
Based on your research, does there seem to be any validity to the Tibetan Buddhist concept of the bardo? From your research, it looks like their idea of a person reincarnating within a maximum of 49 days isn’t true. It also sounds like the afterlife journey isn’t as perilous as they make it out to be.
Yes, I think the bardos are pretty much synonymous with what lots of us call the spirit realms or the afterlife or the astral worlds…. Realms indicate places, while bardos imply states of existence… but basically the same thing, I think.
I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that by far most people reincarnate after they die… and that for most of us it’s a fairly quick turnaround… within a month or two. But we’re told that 1) some people are ‘over there’ for many experiences and journeys before coming back into the physical, 2) they don’t always come back to Earth, but maybe to a parallel world of the Earth, or maybe another physical world altogether, or a very dense astral world, and 3) time is a troublesome illusion… which makes the 49-day timeframe a bit vague from the perspective of our spirit friends.
In other words, a person could die, get settled in the astral worlds, and proceed to enjoy diverse experiences that would seem to us like decades of time here on Earth, and then return to Earth a week or two later after they’d died.
That description is very odd, not true and sounds as if from an ignorant person or spirit, guessing because they were asked. A spirit can communicate to a human. But that spirit might be as ignorant of God’s creation as they were on earth.
As a clairvoyant, i have seen spirits incarnate. It looks nothing like this story above. Read the book “Communication with the Spirit World of God – It’s Laws and Purpose” by Johannes Greber, translated from the German, first published in 1932. Amazon.com has copies. There is a pdf file that is a forgery of the original and has been changed/rewritten. It is not as accurate.
Reassuring to hear the total truth from a gifted clairvoyant such as yourself.
I suspect if spirit group Timestream’s hands-on experience with reincarnations differs from the scenarios perceived by you and Johannes, then Timestream’s experiences must surely be all just figments of their imaginations.
I’ll be sure to let them know, once I get over there to visit them in a few years (I turn 65 in a couple of months, so I shouldn’t have to be stuck in this world of arrogance, narrow thinking, misconception, and illusion TOO much longer 🙂 )… and I’m sure they’ll be disappointed to learn that their experiences are just delusions, while the goings-on in Brentsworld are the real deal.
I apologize if you feel slighted by my response to an untrue statement from a spirit. I don’t know why you would be offended by something an outside source might have said to you.
There is no reason for sarcasm. Have you considered that the spirit speaking in that above message about how humans incarnate into a body might have been lying? Test the spirits to see they are from God (1 John 4 1-6). Those who can affirm that Jesus of Nazareth was the Christ incarnate and defeated lucifer, are from God, all others send away.”
If you consider that there are many spirits just as there are humans who do not know as much as they claim, and that there is a manner to learn from higher spirits who do know the truth, just as a human would rather listen to a truthful person, so also you might realize a more progressive future if you focus on higher spirits instead of every voice that you might contact from the spirit world.
Think of the spirit world at spiritual gatherings as a busy mall with many types of contacts. Depending on what you’re looking for will depend on the level of spirit you contact. If you seek pure truth from the God of Heaven there is a better chance that the higher spirits would reach you. But, as Christ said, “by your fruits you shall be known”. Your thoughts attract spirits of like kind. The more truthful, more pure, more willing your prayerful mind is to Christ and to God, the more closely will your vibration become able to reach the higher spirits.
Good luck. You might still take a look at Johanes Greber’s book. It’s a very good book on the subject of spiritual development and the manifestation of different levels of spirits.
Thanks for your follow-up. I’d forgotten all about our comment exchange 5 years ago, and I was unpleasantly surprised this morning by my sarcastic reply to you. I’m sorry about that, and I say that sincerely. I actually feel embarrassed and a little humiliated about my reply to you back in 2014.
Also, I appreciate the wisdom of your current comment, which include:
“Test the spirit…
“There are many spirits just as there are humans who do not know as much as they claim…
“Your thoughts attract spirits of like kind…
“The more truthful, more pure, more willing your prayerful mind is to Christ and to God, the more closely will your vibration become able to reach the higher spirits…”
I agree fully with those statements and accept them as truth (including the mention of Christ, whom I believe to be a highly refined and enlightened spirit), and they are very similar to messages we received from Timestream (the spirit group who gave us insights about reincarnation).
During our years together in our INIT group, a German member named Guenter Emde stressed the importance of being confident in our spirit colleagues, and we all took his message to heart. He said, “Over time we learn to trust people in our lives because they show us through their thoughts, words, and actions that they always try their best to be honest, kind, and reliable. We should take the same approach to our spirit team.”
And that is what happened with INIT. Over time our spirit friends at Timestream always came across as honest, kind, and reliable. There were never any mixed messages, nor was there ever the kind of sarcasm I used in my reply to you 5 years ago. I’m sure they were as offended about that as I would have been had I been in your shoes.
My main point is that over the years I came to trust Timestream and The Seven completely and was never disappointed.
I’ll see if I can find a copy of Johannes Greber’s book for my kindle.
Thanks again for giving me a chance to reflect on my hasty reply from before.
I need to add to that: The force that kept the respect, friendship, and good will as the overriding force in our ITC bridge with Timestream was facilitation by The Seven ethereal beings, who monitored our dialogs closely and kept encouraging us all (INIT members on Earth and the Timestream spirit group at level 3) to remain strong and confident, to resolve any differences quickly, and to avoid fear and doubt in our interactions with each other.
At certain times, because exhaustion of certain members or jealousies or doubts or fears, the contact field became unstable, and negative spirits were able to start making contacts with us with disturbing messages.
So… your advice is especially good: Test the spirits. But also very important: always be of love and honesty and trust and good will so that we resonate with finer spirit. And that’s a lesson that goes way beyond ITC research. 🙂
Thanks again for the follow-up, Brent.